View Full Version : rear mounted turbo
jrchannell
06-09-2005, 11:36 AM
i guess maybe everyone has seen this already , i dont know but it was new to me.
http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/f/Press/STS_THP.pdf
http://www.movfast.com/forums/viewtopic ... highlight= (http://www.movfast.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1234&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)
jrchannell
06-09-2005, 11:42 AM
cool , i figured ,must of missed it
jrchannell
06-09-2005, 11:43 AM
damn search button does wonders. lol
be easy to steal.. cordless sawzall an off you go
MnAiXsImMoA
06-09-2005, 12:14 PM
what is the benifit of useing this system?
turbo is in the back, incoming air to your motor is cooler cause its not coming strait off the turbo.. however thats what intercoolers are for correct?
really i dont see any advantages to it, i see more disadvantages to it than anything
on say an fbody or something it would be a space issue i guess.. but eh, it fits. an the kits arent cheap either.
Feedman
06-09-2005, 12:58 PM
Seems inefficient to me...
Spool would become an issue.....air has to travel down to the turbo, then back to the engine....??
Alot of piping...more than usual...
I have heard that i/c's aren't as essintial b/c of the air cooling off as it travels to the front of the car...
Heat tends to disapate quicker....
Anyway....like Jay said, there have been a case or two of people coming out starting there car, and hearing a huge exhuast leak, only to find there turbo setup is missing....lol...
8)
ShortysTRM
06-09-2005, 05:07 PM
I think the main advantage that equates to cooler air is the fact that the exhaust side of the turbo will be much much cooler than if it were upstream by the manifold. Other than that, it seems like the slow spool-up and huge pressure drop from such long piping would just kinda make it a really restrictive muffler/intake at low RPM's. It's a nifty idea, but unless your car is mid or rear engined, the length of the exhaust and intake piping seem as if they'd make it horribly inefficient. Then again, if it was between this setup and no turbo at all, I'd probably go with this one.
ben2000formula
06-09-2005, 05:51 PM
the air passes under the car, cooling it, and not needing an intercooler. at 4-5 psi of boost on an ls1, people normally see 475-480 whp. not bad and much more potential, when finally add an intercooler, you can take the boost to 8 psi and make close to 580-600 whp. Spool characteristics are the same, and most people say they get full boost(4-5psi) at around 3600 rpms. I like the kit, more efficient then a vortech unti that take 12-14 psi to reach 450-475 rwhp.
http://www.ststurbo.com
MnAiXsImMoA
06-09-2005, 06:42 PM
i would think it would make a huge amount of lag but i could see how it would make the air cooler but i do not think it would be anything signifcant but what do i no :P
ben2000formula
06-09-2005, 08:01 PM
it is just alot more efficient then a belt driver blower, because of no parasitic pull on the motor, and it does have the hot under hot temps that a manifold turbo has.
purehateedge
06-09-2005, 09:31 PM
ill pass...thats why i bought a nice sized intercooler. i can't even imagine the spool-lag. i bet its hilarious. and yes. thats what intercoolers are for. i have seriously had my hand on teh hotpipe and had it be completely unbearable to touch and touched the coldpipe side on the otehr side of the intercooler and its nice and room tempereature-ish to the touch
InterceptorXR7
06-09-2005, 10:35 PM
all its good for is that you dont have to buy a special manifold for it, all in all, crap.
Feedman
06-10-2005, 12:25 AM
I think the main advantage that equates to cooler air is the fact that the exhaust side of the turbo will be much much cooler than if it were upstream by the manifold. Other than that, it seems like the slow spool-up and huge pressure drop from such long piping would just kinda make it a really restrictive muffler/intake at low RPM's. It's a nifty idea, but unless your car is mid or rear engined, the length of the exhaust and intake piping seem as if they'd make it horribly inefficient. Then again, if it was between this setup and no turbo at all, I'd probably go with this one.
Be Careful, when you say that.
Exhaust side: is how it sounds: exhaust gases, aka the hot side.
Compressor side: is the "cool" side. Charged air flows to Intake Mani.
Hotter air moves quicker. Thats why you see headers jet coated or wrapped.
Remember, a turbo isn't spooled by the gases expelled by the engine, its actually fueled by the pressure drop between the two bodies of air, thus allowing the air to flow & spinning a turbo.
8)
Feedman
06-10-2005, 12:30 AM
ill pass...thats why i bought a nice sized intercooler. i can't even imagine the spool-lag. i bet its hilarious. and yes. thats what intercoolers are for. i have seriously had my hand on teh hotpipe and had it be completely unbearable to touch and touched the coldpipe side on the otehr side of the intercooler and its nice and room tempereature-ish to the touch
There is no way your pre-cooled air exiting the turbo is that hot where it would burn you....
I call B.S.
Only way it could be hot is if it was collecting heat radiated from the engine/turbo/manifold. If so you need to wrap that sucka and you would see some good gains.
Heat sucks is NOT your friend.
Yes the coolers job is to disapate heat, but not @ the rate you are describing.
Remember, bigger intercoolers are not always better.......
There is a nifty little thing I like to call pressure drop.
8)
purehateedge
06-10-2005, 04:02 AM
we'll go for a run in my car sometime and then you can touch the hotpipe and tell me its not hot. just because your civic doesnt do it doesnt mean no ones will. and just because you run a small intercooler doesnt eman everyone should. how much boost are you running...
ben2000formula
06-10-2005, 09:15 AM
:popcorn:
Feedman
06-10-2005, 09:19 AM
we'll go for a run in my car sometime and then you can touch the hotpipe and tell me its not hot. just because your civic doesnt do it doesnt mean no ones will. and just because you run a small intercooler doesnt eman everyone should. how much boost are you running...
I am not going to argue. If it does fine, BUT if I were you, I would surely remedy that problem. Think, if the air is cooler even before it gets to the i/c, how much better it will be when it exits the i/c.
Like I mentioned, you may want to wrap the pipes....b/c I doubt its from the air inside the pipes thats heating it up.
Otherwise your turbo is very inefficent @ that boost level and is making more hot air than power.
Does this look small to you??
http://webpages.charter.net/siadam/movfast/sipics/intercooler.jpg
Btw....boost anywhere between 10-21lbs. (depends on my mood)
8)
MnAiXsImMoA
06-10-2005, 11:39 AM
adam has one of the biggest intercoolers i have ever seen........some may say he is compensating for something i dunnno but that was a pretty ignorant comment :wink:
is that an automatic transmission cooler? wow, bet it keeps that powerglide you got in your car nice an cool..
Feedman
06-10-2005, 12:40 PM
No compensation here.... :wink:
Just like to be able to hang with the big dogs....
8)
purehateedge
06-10-2005, 01:40 PM
mines probably abotu the same size...maybe taller. not as wide for sure. hey im not being a dick im just saying what i know about my setup, so whether or not you think im lying doesnt make too much of a difference to me. its an internet forum. why do i need to lie?
narfdanarf
06-10-2005, 08:33 PM
actually the fact that bigger is not always better is a misconception for intercoolers. That misconception could hold true if it is a crapy built one because like Adam said, there would be so much pressure drop it would be worthless. However, for example Nisei intercooler for the Evo 8 is the biggest one on the market constructed for the evo and it still has less than 1lb of pressure drop (actually i think it's less than .5lb but I can't remember)
So when it comes to intercoolers, bigger is better as long as you have a good one.
RobbieNelson
06-10-2005, 09:49 PM
actually the fact that bigger is not always better is a misconception for intercoolers. That misconception could hold true if it is a crapy built one because like Adam said, there would be so much pressure drop it would be worthless. However, for example Nisei intercooler for the Evo 8 is the biggest one on the market constructed for the evo and it still has less than 1lb of pressure drop (actually i think it's less than .5lb but I can't remember)
So when it comes to intercoolers, bigger is better as long as you have a good one.
Let me clear 2 things up
1. Super humungo aftercoolers(correct term, intercoolers go between sequential turbos) can cause major cooling problems. I'm not speaking of "charge air". I'm talking about the engine in general. These are not good problems to have for road course junkies and daily drivers. Just thought I'd point that out to those looking to upgrade. It is something that should be considered.
2. Pressure drop isn't the only thing that can make a huge aftercooler bad. The shear volume of one can cause increased spool-up lag. Again, something road course and autocrossers don't want.
Carry on... we've gotten quite a bit OT haven't we?
Feedman
06-11-2005, 01:30 AM
OT ??
It seems a very good discussion.
PureHate....I wasn't trying to be a dick either, I was just trying as Justin/Robbie stated a few misconceptions.
If in fact your charge pipe exiting the turbo is hot, I highly doubt its from the turbo itself, but more from radiated heat. I would do something about that....heat cause detonation or tip in detonation...
Please carry on.
8)
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