Got the LS Head back...yet UPDATE 9/12/04

[someone]

05/29/04
well guys last night my timing belt snapped as i was turning into my road. I downshifted to second and revved to about 2k when i heard this pop, and it pushed the clutch back in and my engine stalled. i was like wtf?

So i try to start the engine, but to no avail it didnt start. So i drift to my driveway and pop my hood. I couldnt see what was wrong so i went into my house grabbed a flash light and my dad to help me.

Well we got out there, and i looked into the distributor when my dad cranked over the engine, no spark. Well we took of the distributor cap and cranked her over again, the rotor didnt even move. Then i thought, ha im f'ed, my timing belt is done. We noticed that there are black depoists and shaving all throughout the distributor cap. We look at the distributor housing and see that the rotor button was digging into the dist. housing. wtf? i had that problem on my other engine and never thought of it as serious, so since my other engein didnt come with a dist. i used the one from the old enine which is on here now. not to mention the dist has over 270k on it.and with a closer look at the distributor rotor button, and we can move the rotor button to the left and the right without moving the rotor. Well thats not good, i look at the button screw and it is almost all the way out WTF again.

Well i go into the garage, get a 10mm socket/wrench and start to remove the valve cover. Sure enough there is my timing belt popped up and snapped in half.

Well guys thanks for all the responses. Heres an update.

We checked compression and found that the 1 and 4 cylinders have no compression. NOT GOOD.

So i took the head to get a complete rebuild with all oem honda parts. I would have gotten a full Crower build but i need my car back asap. It just figures my jdm 4-1 header came today and i dont have a head to bolt it to lol.




UPDATE: 7/30/04

Well guys i got the head back a couple days ago. After about 2 months of waiting for it to get out of the machine shop. Well me and my dad start slappin everything back together around 10:30. We noticed a lot of slack in the timing belt and i asked dad if he adjusted the tensioner and he said yea. but we just ignored it thinking that it wouldnt be a problem when the engine was actually running. we get done around 12. Try to start the car. Not starting. Whats new huh? Well its gettin fuel, yet no spark.

We come to find out that when i ran the wires to the external coil, they arched into each other, and then went through the dist housing and caused the ICM to fry.

Well we go to autozone and buy a dist. $227.59 Hook it up, still doesnt start, yet we have spark now, which makes me a little bit relieved.

now we think we must have messed up between cam and crank TDC. We remove the valve cover and we find out, everything is ok. So we put the valve cover back on, try to start the car and now we notice the belt is slipping teeth. We must have tried to start the car 10 times so it slipped a tooth once every 2 rotations basicially.

So we run a compression test and to find out that #2-4 cylinders have no compression. So basicially i waited 2 months to have no teg again. Im so frustrated. Dad just called up the machine shop and they said that they will have it done in a week from monday. So tomarrow we are gonna yank the head off again and drop it off to them.

Hopefully this wont turn into another 2 month ordeal.
Is it true that every .12" you mill the head it retards the timing 1deg? So how would i do the timing with the head milled .020"?

So now its gonna cost more to get it fixed than last time considering it was more than just 3 valves this time. I guess ill be riding with my gf for another 2 weeks.

But thats the update.

[Feedman]

Man, sorry dude.

Not much I can say, I am weak on a few different things, and timing is one of them. I wish I had some insight on what to tell you.

Please keep us all updated. I am sure if you need some extra help, we could round up a few guys and come down one eveing...just say when...

Again, good luck.... 8)

[someone]

Man, sorry dude.

Not much I can say, I am weak on a few different things, and timing is one of them. I wish I had some insight on what to tell you.

Please keep us all updated. I am sure if you need some extra help, we could round up a few guys and come down one eveing...just say when...

Again, good luck.... 8)

Yea tomarrow im tearing the head off again and monday we are dropping it off, so they said in about a week they could get it done. I dont understand how i had a good spark and it still wouldnt even start when everything was at TDC. Unless the first time we ever tried to start it is when the belt slipped and thats when the valves were bent and at the same time fried my ICM/Dist. So im thinkin it will start once i get the head back since i have a new dist. and its not gonna arch and fry anything and ill have compression back.


I went outside after reading a post on another honda board that said that the tensioner spring should "self-tension" against the belt if you turn it 3 notches past TDC on the cam gears and loosen the tensioner bolt, let it tension it self and then screw the bolt back on. yet the tensioner didnt have any pressure from the spring. I took the tensioner off and low and behold the spring was not in the right place, in fact not even on the tensioner, so i put the spring back on and now it tensions it self. so now i know how to tension it and i wont be worried anymore about belt slippage.

Hopefully, hopefully when i get the head back this time ill have my teg.

That be great if you guys could come down, yet its more than likely that im about 200 miles away from any of you.

[Feedman]

Man, sorry dude.

Not much I can say, I am weak on a few different things, and timing is one of them. I wish I had some insight on what to tell you.

Please keep us all updated. I am sure if you need some extra help, we could round up a few guys and come down one eveing...just say when...

Again, good luck.... 8)

Yea tomarrow im tearing the head off again and monday we are dropping it off, so they said in about a week they could get it done. I dont understand how i had a good spark and it still wouldnt even start when everything was at TDC. Unless the first time we ever tried to start it is when the belt slipped and thats when the valves were bent and at the same time fried my ICM/Dist. So im thinkin it will start once i get the head back since i have a new dist. and its not gonna arch and fry anything and ill have compression back.


I went outside after reading a post on another honda board that said that the tensioner spring should "self-tension" against the belt if you turn it 3 notches past TDC on the cam gears and loosen the tensioner bolt, let it tension it self and then screw the bolt back on. yet the tensioner didnt have any pressure from the spring. I took the tensioner off and low and behold the spring was not in the right place, in fact not even on the tensioner, so i put the spring back on and now it tensions it self. so now i know how to tension it and i wont be worried anymore about belt slippage.

Hopefully, hopefully when i get the head back this time ill have my teg.

That be great if you guys could come down, yet its more than likely that im about 200 miles away from any of you.


I heard also that when you replace your Timing belt, you should also replace your water pump as most people know, but you should also replace the tensioner...it can and may have been the cause of your belt slipping breaking....

Since you have it down, why not....? 8)

[RallyEX]

If you need a spare head LS head, I've got one... PM me for more info if you are interested.

[someone]

If you need a spare head LS head, I've got one... PM me for more info if you are interested.

nah i got a spare one too, but its bare. i just got the head back today again from Martins Machine and it turns out we didnt bend any valves, its just that the other place that did the work before did not lap the valves.

[someone]

UPDATE 8/11/04:

Well guys i now officially have the teg running and im driving around just like i use to.

We took the head to Martins Machine and he poured varisol lol i think thats what it is, in the head and then took a air compressor end a shot air into the ports and air came gushing out. Therefore he said that the last company didnt even hand lap the valves because they probably thought that the valves would seat themselces. guess not right. Thats the first reason why i didnt have any compression the first time we put the head back on.

The 2nd reason why i didnt have any compression in the #2-4 cylinders was because the shop grounded down the valves so much that when we installed the cams that the valves came off the seat. so we had to do a valve adjustment and now i am getting 185 compression throughout all 4 cylinders with a 3 angle valve job and milled head .020".

All i have to do now is make the exhaust stop rattling off of a piece of the chassis at the axle back portion and ill be ok. The exhaust is extremely loud and sounds alot different with the jdm 4-1 header and 2.5" test pipe. But thats the update and ill post a video and audio clip somewhere so u guys can here it.

[Feedman]

Sweet dude. How does it feel to be back behind the wheel finally....lol...?

I would be interested in seeing some pics/sound clips myself....

Do you have any of the work in progress....?

Later..... 8)

[someone]

UPDATE 9/12/04:

Well guys, the teg is back and better than ever. Im really impressed with my self by puttin this engine back together and having no problems afterwards. But anyway back to the point.

After we got the engine in so called "time" we started the engine up and it started back firing out the intake. I guess the "timing" wasent right. Well i jumped the serivce connector and put the "light gun" on it. LOL MATT.

On an integra crank pully there are 4 marks and a pointer molded into the timing belt cover to point to what deg timing you are currently at.

The 4 marks indictate TDC 14deg 16deg and 18deg. Well the pointer ended up almost at TDC. So what that means is that my spark was firing right btdc

Example:
http://www.team-integra.net/images/BAEC1978-D3A7-4405-AB2D-2761DC15A96D/articles/timing/pointer2.jpg
IMAGE PROPERTY OF TEAM-INTEGRA.NET

To add on to that, this means my dist was retarded all the way, in terms meant that the dist was twisted all the way to the right, or clockwise. Also my head is milled .020", which causes a retard of 2.5deg going by for every .012" you mill of retards the timing 2deg. So i had to twist the dist counterclockwise to stock 14deg, which is technicially the white timing mark in the picture since i had to take into mind that the timing is 2deg retarded of what the marks say, so basically the timing marks meant 12deg 14deg and 16deg. So i advanced it to the second mark which is the stock 14deg. That solved the intake backfire. So now i advanced it to 18deg by estimating where the 18deg mark would be, about 1/8" past the 16deg mark.

After all that the teg runs fine and i also learned that not having my vacuum line hooked up from my pcv valve the the catch can causes exhaust popping and burning of oil and a closed pcv system cause blowby gases to go past the rings and burn.

Cheers..

[Feedman]

Great info. I am working on better understanding timing myself, I always look forward to reading articles like this.

Good to hear your teg is back on the road...keep it that way.... 8)

[someone]

Great info. I am working on better understanding timing myself, I always look forward to reading articles like this.

Good to hear your teg is back on the road...keep it that way.... 8)

good im glad that was some good info, i was hoping that it would be helpful. I have just now grasped the whole "timing" ordeal. Its pretty simple once you understand it all.-

[Feedman]

Great info. I am working on better understanding timing myself, I always look forward to reading articles like this.

Good to hear your teg is back on the road...keep it that way.... 8)

good im glad that was some good info, i was hoping that it would be helpful. I have just now grasped the whole "timing" ordeal. Its pretty simple once you understand it all.-

So is quantum physics, but that doesn't mean its easy.... 8)