Tell me about V8's.

[narfdanarf]

I am sick of front wheel drive, and I can't afford to get an EVO or a skyline, so I'm thinking I want something RWD and shit. Or hell I'd at least like to know about them more. So I think I'm going to buy a camaro or something that is a chevy and has a V8.


I'm pretty sure I want a chevy, just because everyone has mustangs, and they have a high amount of aftermarket support. With that being said educate me on Chevy V8's.

I know Ford 5.0 blocks have a tendency to split in half at anything over 500hp or so I've heard, so what kind of things like this should I know about the Chevy engines? I guess I mean what are their drawbacks of the different engines?

What is the difference between the LT1/LS1/LS2/6/7 and just a regular chevy 350? just the heads and compression? I figure I wont stick with stock heads anyways, so am I better off with just getting a junkyard block to start out with?

Should I try and get a big block like a 454 or hell even bigger, and jam it into whatever chassis I end up with?

What kind of heads should I look at, Also cams...good lord there are so many options, I don't even know where to begin.

I am not used to this mess in the import world there aren't so many options, there is sort of a clear cut path to X amount of performance.

Fuel injection? My goals for the car are prolly something like 500whp or so plus a large amount of spray...maybe...


really I'm just dreaming of a life without FWD and I would like to know what it would take to get me out of imports. Ejumacate me. I could call and ask my dad, but he hasn't built an engine since he left Ray's engineering in the mid nineties, and I figure he's not current with all the new type shit.

[InterceptorXR7]

everyone has a camaro or firebird too lol

[Governor on A YFZ]

In terms of a V8, its hard to beat the power to weight ratio of a 383 stroker. You can get loads of hp and torque out of a 383 reliably while saving the extra 200-300 lbs of a big block. My dad's Nova is running a 383 built by Watson Ruppel in Ohio, I think its running around the 500 hp mark and doing so on pump gas.

[Stang420]

If you want something easy to work on get a 5.0 Mustang. The stock blocks usually split from poor tuning. There's several guys over on stangnet.com making over 500hp to the wheels with stock blocks, and one guy making well over 600rwhp.
What about a 4.6L Mustang? The block is good for close to 1000hp, but the stock pistons and rods don't like much over 400rwhp. The 03-04 Cobra's are the exception to that rule since they're factory blown. 600+rwhp seems to be pretty common with those cars after just a blower swap and other bolt ons.

If you're set on buying a Chevy, I would go with the LS series. The LT1 really isn't a bad engine, but the LS1 is much better. Intake and cam swap on the LS1 can get you in the 350-375rwhp range(I think). Add a set of AFR's or ported stock heads and 400+ is easy.

What are your goals for the car? Daily Driver? Weekend toy? Drag car?

[Jay]

Ford's 302 is prone to splitting in half but only when extremely over-revved. I have never blown one.. so that's def saying something. They make a girdle that goes on the block to prevent it. Anyways..


Here's some nice info on chevy small blocks like the LT1, ect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LT_engine

Depending on what you are building is what would be my deciding factor on fuel injection.
If the car didnt come injected carb it. You are going to have far less money runnin a carb as efi.

396, 427, 454, bla bla, theyre all cool but rather impracticle for what you want. Big blocks make big torque but they also make big dents in your bank account. A nice rule of thumb is whatever a part for a small block cost's double it for a big block.

As far as a stroker motor goes, Summit sells the complete kit now and it's fairly reasonable priced.

Semi-Budget build -
Find a 350 4bolt block, buy a 383 stroker kit.
Peruse the net ect. for an old set of 202 heads
Find a cam that has the power/torque range you want then find an intake to match
Carb, dont skimp on this.. stay away from Edelbrock's theyre crap. I have 3 in my garage. Buy a demon or something
Lightweight flywheel - isnt a must but revs quicker
Electric cooling fan

You are still gona have some cash invested in it, but not as if you were to go buy aluminum heads, roller rockers, the list goes on and on. If you put a decent sized cam in it you will have to use a stall converter if youre backing it with some type of automatic tranny. Also once you get it built and in if it isnt enough just throw a nitrous kit on it.
Im sure with a motor like that though youre giong to be a little impressed. It's nice having torque on demand.

-

Money being a semi-no object build

Again 350 block
Using the standard 4" bore buy a 302 rotating assembly from Summit.
They used to be high, but they came down alot in price now because of the 67-69 camaro guys buying/using them
Peruse for some good aluminum heads
Cam - you only need what came stock in the 67-69 Z28. I dono the specs off the top of my head
Intake - look for a remake of the orig option dual 4brl side draft setup. Theyre out there.. not cheap though
Carbs - again, get good ones
Nitrous - this cuold be done by having the intake drilled an tapped but that setup is gona run you quite a bit. Honestly if it were me I'd run 2 plates one under each carb an run them on 50hp jets.

The GM made 302 is a wonderful creature. Not much low end but revs like a 2-stroke and has alot of top end. Think of it as a 4cyl-vtec. Has nothing til that sweet spot.
A totally stock 302 w/out the aluminum heads I suggested but with the factory option 2x4 intake makes just around 470hp+ on the dyno. If you peruse some camaro site's you'll find some ppl who have done it.

Really to be honest your options are limitless an it's all in what you prefer.
Cause once youve explored these options here comes the next.. new generation motors such as Lt1 ect. and what you can do w/those. What it all comes down to is how much yuo want to spend and which path you want to go down

[narfdanarf]

Mustangs are my favorite domestic car, but down here where I live there is about 992,000 retarded fast mustangs...like 3 fast camaros.


So I am liking the idea of that 383. 500whp on pump gas would be very nice, then maybe throw like a 200shot of nitrous on top for evenings at the strip? what is good compression ratio to go with for something like that maybe 500whp on pump gas? In my dad's car we used Dart heads of some sort. Don't know anything about them except they weren't stock and they didn't really cost that much money. What kind of flow numbers should I look for in a head/cam combo?

[narfdanarf]

thanks for the reply Jay and the link I'll check that out after school.

really money is an object of course, but I should be getting part of my bonus in a few months after taxes should be around 9k. Part of that I'm going to pay off bills, and part I think I'm going to buy a project car.

but I've also been contemplating putting that down on a older FRC, like a 98 or 99 C5

[Jay]

Piss them all off, buy a fox-body an put a chevy motor in it lol

As far as cam/intake go youre justgona have to pick and choose from what youre lookin for.
Do you want more bottom end, mid rang, top end, ect.

[keesor]

So I am liking the idea of that 383. 500whp on pump gas would be very nice, then maybe throw like a 200shot of nitrous on top for evenings at the strip?

What in the hell do you need 650+ hp for? You do realize the first time you run down the track, they will throw you off. You will need to spend some serious cash to get the car legal at the track. Roll cage, driveshaft loop, battery shut off, sfi balancer, sfi flywheel, 5 point harness, the list goes on and on.

Also, in a foxbody mustang 500 whp will get you into the high 10's in the 1/4 mile. How much faster do you really want to go? Something you also have to think about is that much hp on the street usually doesn't work out because you can't hook it up. Anybody can build a 600hp monster for the street but what good does it do if you don't have traction. Just make sure the thing will hook up on the street and the strip or you can just build another dyno queen. I just don't see the point in going out cruising with your dyno sheet and the only thing you can do is tell the guy you make more hp on the dyno than he does. Pointless!!!!!

Also, Stang420 is right about the tuning. No matter what motor you go with you need to have it tuned by someone who knows what they are doing. All it takes is one mistake on a car making 500 + hp and you might as well get your bucket out to collect the pieces.

Now as far as the girdle goes for the 5.0 blocks, they don't add anything to the strength of the block. The only thing the girdle does is hold all of the pieces together (Kind of replacing the bucket above). But Jay is right about the over revving thing. The more hp you make on a 5.0 the less you want to rev the motor. Cars making over 500 whp on a factory 5.0 shortblock should not rev over 6000 rpm!

[keesor]

One more thing, if you're set on a camaro, my idea of the ultimate would be a 1992 25th anniversary camaro with a fuel injected 427 in it! That would be something not very many people have!!!

[Jay]

One more thing, if you're set on a camaro, my idea of the ultimate would be a 1992 25th anniversary camaro with a fuel injected 427 in it! That would be something not very many people have!!!

I got the camaro lol

[Jay]

This was the girlde I spoke of, not the one that bolts onto the main caps.
It is proven to strengthen blocks. Tho like anything if you push it too hard it is going to break

[keesor]

I've never seen one of those Jay? Where can I get some more info on it like who makes it. (Edit: Nevermind I found the info I need) I can see and 8" crank pulley and 15 lbs of boost in my very near future!!!

[Jay]

I've never seen one of those Jay? Where can I get some more info on it like who makes it. (Edit: Nevermind I found the info I need) I can see and 8" crank pulley and 15 lbs of boost in my very near future!!!


Quite a few ppl sell them. I see you found one so I wont bother posting links

Alot of the guys on corral.net swear by them.
Some time back there was a guy with too much free time and an engine dyno did some testing on a bone stock 302. He proved that by reducing the regular twist/flex that any v8 has a small ammount of that hp numbers could be increased by reducing this from happening. Though the hp increase was very minimal (3-5hp if memory serves) the real reason behind this is not so much hp gain as it is block strengthening for more abuse/boost/nos/ect.

[Jay]

Well I was bored an perused some LT1 parts on ebay..

I say yank the motor out
Have the block bioled an all that fun stuff, new cam bearings yada yada
Pick up an LT4 hot cam
Send your intake an heads to have port an polish / valve work done
Get a BBK tb cause you can port the stock tb opening to 58mm I think?
Buy a set of long tube's / y-pipe / an decent catback
Upgrade your fuelpump
Get a nitrous kit


There you are, a fresh motor, not a shit-ton of money in it, and more hp than the car can handle
Put some 4:10's in the ass if you want more uncontrollable spinnage

I dono alot bout LT1's .. or many of the GM efi motors to be exact
so.. yea, im sure I missed alot in there
If you wana talk ford 5.0/4.6 ect. tho im down

[Governor on A YFZ]

OK I've got the sheet from Watson Ruppel, here goes...Eagle 383 crank, Speed Pro Hyperutectic pistons at 10.3:1 comp with 77cc Dart heads, 800 CFM Edelbrock Thunder Series AVS Carburetor(sorry Jay!), Edelbrock Performer EPS Intake, match ported and polished intake and heads, Comp Cams high lifter kit, Comp Cams True Roller Rocker Kit, Magnum rockers and pushrods, Hooker headers with 2.25 inch exhaust(will be bigger soon!), Edelbrock Victor series fuel pump at 13 psi, Champ 7 quart oil pan and pickup...thats about it Forest! If anyone needs to know specifics I've got lots of numbers on these friggin sheets.

[narfdanarf]

that is friggin awesome...what does something like that rev to?

[Governor on A YFZ]

I'm not exactly sure about the peak rpm, I think the peak is around 6500, but I know the redline starts at 5800 because the engine has very beefy retaining bolts and hardened H-beam connecting rods. The sleeves and piston skirts are also coated with a ceramic called apticote which is used in Formula 1 because of its ability to retain an oil film even at very high engine speeds.

[w8]

Why does it have to be a Camaro? All my friends have Mustangs. I wanted something different, so I got a Falcon. Build the Chevy motor of your dreams, and find a sleeper car to put it in. Lots of choices. My personal favorite is an early to mid eighties Malibu. Even in 2 door trim, everyone thinks its a grandma car until you blow them away.

[Jay]

Because who in the hell wants to cruise around in an 80's Malibu?

[narfdanarf]

What about oldsmobile's?

my grandpa has a 69 oldsmobile that is gold and has a 450 something engine in it (455?)with like 15000 miles on it that I could get for prolly next to nothing.

[brummy]

Because who in the hell wants to cruise around in an 80's Malibu?

If it's fast and will surprise a lot of people, I do.

[keesor]

I actually kind of like the early 80's 2 dr malibu's. Get a set of corvette rally's with the flat centers and that is a sweet looking car!

[Jay]

Because who in the hell wants to cruise around in an 80's Malibu?

If it's fast and will surprise a lot of people, I do.


I like fast stuff, but I also like having something that looks nice.
Sure cruising around a Chevette with a blown 502 would be cool, but you arent gona ipck up many chics.

[daveb91]

If you goo GM I would definately go with a LS style engine than a LT1. When I picked up the TA I drove one with a LT1 and then one with a LS1 the LS1 is definatly the better engine. More power better torque and its smoother.

[Jay]

But buyin the LS over the LT is also more money. I can see buying a newer f-body for the LS1 vs. the LT1 but if I was building a project like an older car screw it, build a nice smallblock an carb it.
Wont be nearly as cool as poppin the hood an seeing an ls1 between the fenders of your musclecar but it will be alot cheaper.