Autocross Daily Driver?

[ShortysTRM]

Ok, I'm tired of always wanting to auto-x and never doing it...I always show up to watch, but I never do it. I want to race on Sunday if possible, but I have a little problem. My car is a 1993 Grand Am GT ( :roll: ) with some light mods (I know you should start off in a stock car, but it's a bit too late) and 103,000 miles on it :shock: . I hope to change my oil (always Mobil 1) and trans fluid (from Royal Purple to Mobil 1) before I go, just to be fresh, and I would like to change my rear brakes. That JIC coil-over failure video that Davis posted makes me wonder what kind of risks I'm taking, as this is my only car. This car is my daily driver and I can't afford to fix much and don't know a lot about how to rig stuff up to limp home on (broken suspension parts, bound brakes, broken trannies). I feel like the questions I have are the questions a lot of us newbies have, so this may help a few of us. I am sorry to put this outside of the auto-x FAQ, but I thought this was a bit specific to me to go in a general FAQ.

Thanks guys... :driving:

[Feedman]

Ok, I'm tired of always wanting to auto-x and never doing it...I always show up to watch, but I never do it. I want to race on Sunday if possible, but I have a little problem. My car is a 1993 Grand Am GT ( :roll: ) with some light mods (I know you should start off in a stock car, but it's a bit too late) and 103,000 miles on it :shock: . I hope to change my oil (always Mobil 1) and trans fluid (from Royal Purple to Mobil 1) before I go, just to be fresh, and I would like to change my rear brakes. That JIC coil-over failure video that Davis posted makes me wonder what kind of risks I'm taking, as this is my only car. This car is my daily driver and I can't afford to fix much and don't know a lot about how to rig stuff up to limp home on (broken suspension parts, bound brakes, broken trannies). I feel like the questions I have are the questions a lot of us newbies have, so this may help a few of us. I am sorry to put this outside of the auto-x FAQ, but I thought this was a bit specific to me to go in a general FAQ.

Thanks guys... :driving:

If you are unsure of your vehicle, that alone will prevent you from succeeding in auto-x. If you are worried about pushing the cars limits b/c of failure, I wouldn't chance it. There is nothing wrong with using your daily driver, but have the means to repair/replace parts. Parts break and items wear out. Thats the nature of the beast. Under harsher conditions such as auto-x or drag racing, it WILL happen more frequently. 8)

[xjoewhitex]

yea i prolly wouldn't chance it either, Since at my first autocross.. I Blu out my Master cyl. and i didn't have the money to fix it for like 2 weeks and it was my only car so i had to drive it... SO i see where your comming from, If u don't think it will make it, don't drive it.. Maybe someone thats going will let you drive their car :wink: WHo knows..

[ShortysTRM]

well, that's not exactly what I wanted to hear. I would still love to participate. I'm not going to try for FTD or anything, as I drive a POS and it's modified, so I'll probably be in some crazy class, like with Bill Gammon :shock: . I think I may just do it and see what I can do without pushing too hard. If you push my car too hard, it just goes straight and scrubs off front tires. I do have a big concern with my front bumper, as it sits about 4" off the ground and would not react well to a pylon.

[ShortysTRM]

here is another pic, considerably newer. That's me in the bumper :D You can see al the yummy part gaps in this one, though :(

[Feedman]

With that last pic, if you go into a corner strong, you are going to scrape. I am sure thats fiberglass and you will prolly crack it...

Keep that in mind.... 8)

[ShortysTRM]

I'm hoping that it can withstand cornering, but at Riverside, there is a small dip that runs through the middle of the parking lot, so I dunno how that'll work out. I wonder if I can drive the course BEFORE paying to run? It's a decent drive from here so I don't wanna go up there just to test it unless it's Sunday, so I'll have a reason to be there if it doesn't work out.

[Davis Silver Sti]

Shortys TRM brings up some very good points on the race vs. daily driver thing.

(BTW, nice car Shorty TRM.)

IMHO, the "education" you get from doing an AutoX far outweighs the potential downsides.

first the negatives...
-Yes, you will get some car wear from doing higher speed runs.
-Yes, there is a (small) chance of breaking something even if your car is in great shape.
-Yes, accidents can happen

positives...
+You will learn so much more about what your car can and can't do vs. street driving. (and maybe even compared to lapping your car on a racetrack in certain aspects)

+ While the timer starts when you cross the line, its completely up to you on how fast you want to drive. This is an important part beacuse driving at a slower rate will pretty much take care of the 3 negative aspects I listed above. There is no pressure to drive fast fast fast. Actually, the veteran members of the group love to see beginning AutoX'ers go really slow in their first runs, if not all of their runs on that day. It shows a willingness to learn the right way, and doing so WILL improve your speed later on.

So what do you do? (for Troy and others)
+ Car has to be safe. Are the brakes in good shape? Oil. (should be for a daily driver, Troy's seem fine)
+ Show up, pay the $15-20 and race. That's it. There shouldn't be much concern over speed or breaking things since this first days run should be at a slow speed to where breaking nearly anything would be highly unlikely. You will be put in a class with cars of similar performance, but driver performance will vary greatly. No problem, we are all here to have fun and learn alot. I do on every single AutoX.

Oh yea, my car is my AutoX, lapping car and daily driver. While I realise that accidents can happen, I feel that it is more dangerous driving on the street than doing an AutoX or even lapping Mid-Ohio by far.

Troy, or anybody else, if you have reservations about AutoX'ing I totally understand, at least show up and watch. Troy, if you want, I have no passengers with me this Sunday, so feel free to grab a helmet and ride with me on a run or 2. Let me know before I grid that you want to run, just to make nobody else is riding.

(about that coilover AutoX vid....it pretty much sums up what I think of JIC coilovers. I'm still gettting a set of coilovers next year thou, just haven't fully decided on which Mfg.)


Truly,

[ShortysTRM]

Davis,

From the start of this thread I had been hoping to hear from a veteran, and YOu always seem to give me hope. My pads are new in the front, though my rotors are a bit small in diameter. My car weighs around 2800 lbs, so it's not too heavy.

+You will learn so much more about what your car can and can't do vs. street driving. (and maybe even compared to lapping your car on a racetrack in certain aspects)

This is precisely why I want to go. Even when I try to push my car to the limits on the street, I still never get there. Since I've never actually gone over those limits, I don't know how it would react. If the car just breaks loose with no warning, I would be screwed. I need to mess aorund with my tire pressure to try and dial out some understeer. When I first put on my rear sway-bar, I noticed a large difference in handling, and a lot of my understeer went away. Later on I installed Energy Suspension front end links and bushings, and my understeer seems to have come back with a vengence. I dunno if I'm just imagining this or if it really did hurt my handling. I just don't want to plow through corners.

Also, I would love to go for a ride. Sadly, the fastest Suby I have ever been in/driven is my dad's Legacy GT, which is not exactly a speed demon. I might slow ya down a little, though.

[Davis Silver Sti]

Davis,

From the start of this thread I had been hoping to hear from a veteran, and YOu always seem to give me hope. My pads are new in the front, though my rotors are a bit small in diameter. My car weighs around 2800 lbs, so it's not too heavy.

+You will learn so much more about what your car can and can't do vs. street driving. (and maybe even compared to lapping your car on a racetrack in certain aspects)

This is precisely why I want to go. Even when I try to push my car to the limits on the street, I still never get there. Since I've never actually gone over those limits, I don't know how it would react. If the car just breaks loose with no warning, I would be screwed. I need to mess around with my tire pressure to try and dial out some understeer. When I first put on my rear sway-bar, I noticed a large difference in handling, and a lot of my understeer went away. Later on I installed Energy Suspension front end links and bushings, and my understeer seems to have come back with a vengence. I dunno if I'm just imagining this or if it really did hurt my handling. I just don't want to plow through corners.

Also, I would love to go for a ride. Sadly, the fastest Suby I have ever been in/driven is my dad's Legacy GT, which is not exactly a speed demon. I might slow ya down a little, though.

The shotgun seat on Sunday belongs to you :D (I don't care too much about the weight..if I did, I should go on a 100 lb. diet)

I've talked to Bil G (the fast guy with the red RX-7) alot about modifications. I took his good advice about staying stock and learning the AutoX thing. IT paid off big time! I'm no FTD guy (give that to Robbie), but I'm one of the fastest stock cars each time.
The good part was that I got to learn on a car that never really changed..it was always stock. While I mess with tire pressures a bit, I can focus more on hitting my marks on the course.

Anyways, since your car does have some mods (hey, I don't blame ya, they are fun!) it mixes up more in the handling equation. Bill tells me that it took him a LONG time to figure his car out. And he is a superb driver. But as he built his car it was harder and harder to drive fast.

Yes, you might get some plow/under-steer at the AutoX, or even some exciting over-steer, but the main part is to keep a pace that you can learn at. You won't and shouldn't be pushing the limits of your car in the beginning, thus not hurting your front spoiler either.

Adam mentioned earlier that "If you are unsure of your vehicle, that alone will prevent you from succeeding in auto-x. If you are worried about pushing the cars limits b/c of failure, I wouldn't chance it." While I totally understand what he is trying to say, I would not focus on the succeeding, fast, FTD, first in class etc...part of it and just focus on learning the line at a slower pace. (I usually screw up a gate or smack a cone) Its amazing how much faster you will learn if you go thru the first runs at a snail pace. (yes, painfully slow, but SOOO worth it)

Analogy: In music, when you hear a guy playing a crazy guitar riff or solo, there's a very good chance that he has practiced that same solo a ton of times at 1/100th of the speed. Doesn't matter if its rock, jazz or classical, the theory is the same. You practice really fast and difficult parts buy going super slow.

Back on AutoX: The funny looking walk thru that everyone does before the event is really important! I like to do it 2 times, sometimes 3 if I can manage. It goes back to that theory of going slow to learn the couse.

[Feedman]

I agree. Learning the course seems to be a major part of the race. Take your time and have fun, thats what its about. I wasn't meaning go balls to the wall. I was just referring to if you are worried about your car not being able to keep up with your abilities, I wouldn't take that chance. Being that you need it on a daily basis..... 8)

[narfdanarf]

Count me out of attending this one. Case of the college student's wallet strikes again.

[Feedman]

Count me out of attending this one. Case of the college student's wallet strikes again.

I owe you $25 bucks.... 8)

[ShortysTRM]

That's mighty humble of you Adam. :bigthumbup:

narfdanarf: I am scraping change on this one, too. That's why I was scared to break something.

Davis: First off, I can't wait to take a ride. Second, how is everything done (i.e. staying dry) when it rains? Rain might keep me from killing the tires, so that might be nice. Third, do you have to have a license to do this? I do, but my friend doesn't, and I figure he'd enjoy this. He's 22 and his car is insured, but his license was revoked. I have always heard that walking the track is very important. I assume you get no chances to drive around it without being timed? Oh yeah, and as for Bill's car, it scares me to watch it...I can only imagine driving it. My mods are not quite so drastic.

[Davis Silver Sti]

That's mighty humble of you Adam. :bigthumbup:

narfdanarf: I am scraping change on this one, too. That's why I was scared to break something.

Davis: First off, I can't wait to take a ride. Second, how is everything done (i.e. staying dry) when it rains? Rain might keep me from killing the tires, so that might be nice. Third, do you have to have a license to do this? I do, but my friend doesn't, and I figure he'd enjoy this. He's 22 and his car is insured, but his license was revoked. I have always heard that walking the track is very important. I assume you get no chances to drive around it without being timed? Oh yeah, and as for Bill's car, it scares me to watch it...I can only imagine driving it. My mods are not quite so drastic.

Rain- I imagine it it runs the exact same as it does when its dry. I've done a bunch of AutoX's, but never in the rain. Tires might be a little better in the rain. My Azenis are doing pretty good. When I had the stock RE92, they would chew up a bit if I over drove them. I wouldn't worry too much, you can still have some decent speed and be good to the tires.

License- the rules say a current drivers license is required. However, they never ask me for my license and I just show my SCCA card to show membership (however they kinda know me now so its no big deal) and pay. Honestly, I wouldn't let your friend drive as it could pose problems for the club if there was an accident. He could do a ride-along!

Nope, no chances to test drive unless you pay. Even when you go at a slower pace its fun. Plus you'll learn 2X more since you'll be riding shotgun with me!

I rode with Bill at Payne. Its definately an e-ticket ride. Great driver, fast fast car. After a run, we had to get gas in the city...we pulled up into the gas station as a bunch of teenagers were getting in...their faces and expresssions were priceless when they saw us get out of the heavily modded car with helmets in our hands.

Cya Sunday.

[ShortysTRM]

But if I do pay, and would like to drive the course before timing begins...is that possible?

[m pwrd 3]

I doubt they will let you, I would reccomend just taking your first run at a slow pace. That is what I did last time (it was my first time).

[Davis Silver Sti]

But if I do pay, and would like to drive the course before timing begins...is that possible?

Nope. Everyone gets the same amount of official runs. No pre-runs or recce.

Jamie and Joe both did a great job on their first AutoX. Went out nice and easy and slowly built up theri pace.

I'm gonna bring some folding chairs for sure. If we had a tarp, that would be awesome. Maybe we need to get an official movFast.com tarp to use at official events and meets!!

[m pwrd 3]

If I get an ok I can probably get us a banner made tomorrow. Nothing fancy just the movFast logo.

I will get a easy up tomorrow too.

[ShortysTRM]

that would be sweet :lol: 8)

[Feedman]

I hope the weather cooperates..... 8)

[ShortysTRM]

Another thing I have been worried about: Tech Inspection. What exactly are these guys going to be doing? Is it true that I need to remove my floor mats? I need to know what they're going to be doing, mostly so I can check beforehand to save myself the embarrassment. I have an exhaust leak that is really pissing me off. My car is too low to drive onto a lift, and none of the exhaust places have the kind of lift that you don't drive onto. I also don't wanna pay $30-40 to have it fixed. You guys will get to hear a nice fart sound from the passenger side of my car.

[xjoewhitex]

When in runs, its better to have loose things taken out of the car such as the floor mats, So it doesn't go flying around while in a turn.. Like how i forgot my radar detector.. and it flue off and rapped around my rist while shifting.. that was fun 8) But mostly on inspection they just make sure your car is safe, such as all lugs are present, and nothing is loose that could make problems, when i went i had to tighten my battery Because it was a tad loose on one site.. besides that no problems.. I think you'll be fine just make everythings tight...

[Feedman]

Basically if your car would pass inspection(wv) than it would be fine @ an auto-x meet. As stated b4, good breaks, nothing loose, no leaks(fluid), etc.

The exhuast leak is annoying beleive me I know, but other than that don't sweat it.

[rant on]

All the lugnuts is a bogus rule, I have driven on 3 lugs for for several months. A few drag events with several passes each, cornering and daily driving....NO PROBLEMS....but for some reason, auto-x REQUIRES all of them.....go figure... 8)

[/rant off]

[Davis Silver Sti]

Basically if your car would pass inspection(wv) than it would be fine @ an auto-x meet. As stated b4, good breaks, nothing loose, no leaks(fluid), etc.

The exhuast leak is annoying beleive me I know, but other than that don't sweat it.

[rant on]

All the lugnuts is a bogus rule, I have driven on 3 lugs for for several months. A few drag events with several passes each, cornering and daily driving....NO PROBLEMS....but for some reason, auto-x REQUIRES all of them.....go figure... 8)

[/rant off]


ummm,
You are driving with only 3 lugnuts? We are talking about the nuts that keep your wheel connected to the axle right? (justcheckin', I'm not missing something here)

Just be careful. That should really be replaced before your car gets on the road again. Just be careful :)

TRM- seems that different regions have varying tech inspections. Some will look all over your car, and some will do a quick check and ask you for mods made and if your car is safe.
The exhaust leak shouldn't be a problem IMHO.
But you will want to completely gut your car of any loose items. It is a pain but necessary since things really slide around alot. CD's, radar detector, loose change, crack pipes, beer bottles, pens, paper and other miscl items.
You should see the strict tech inspections taht they do on the racetrack. I won't get into details, but it can be rather "comprehensive".

[ShortysTRM]

CD's, radar detector, loose change, crack pipes, beer bottles, pens, paper and other miscl items.


hahahahaha....as long as there's no emissions check, I'll be alright. :wink: I just thought that floor mats might be a little drastic. That sounds like a scary moment with your radar detector :shock: