Lotus Elise w/14 pics, for jchouse 56K No.....

[Feedman]

I found this on another site and thought I would share, enjoy. 8)

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise8.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise7.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise6.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise5.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise3.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise2.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise4.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise_enginebay.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise_trunk_enginebay.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/trunk_release.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise_interior.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise_interior2.jpg

http://www.thezam.org/kam/images/cars/elise/elise_moving.jpg


Now, my review:
I rode in it... fun. the car definitely moves, even with two people in it. the power comes on very very smoothly and predictably. the cam switchover is right around 6000rpms.

Driving it (the minute i took it out before i decided i didn't want to fall in love with it and decided to return it), the steering is very very very nice. I thought a MR2 had quick steering...wow!

The engine revs oh so smoothly. reminded me of my CRX.

the gearbox.. absolutely perfect. Reverse, I'm use to reverse being very well defined by a notchy feel...the Elise.. very easy to get into.

The brakes, spongy. not what i was expecting, but, i'm sure a good bleeding will cure it (The Med-Evil Barber, SNL).

Fit and finish... my god this car is beautiful. The gas pedal is very unique. The only gripe i had with the seating position was my knee nudged the shifter...

Otherwise, i'm overwhelmed how incredibly beautiful this car is, inside and out. I just wonder if Jim is ever insane enough to allow me to drive it on a track??

[jchouse]

56K warning

[Feedman]

56K warning

My bad...I realized that right after I posted it.... 8)

[daveb91]

56k warning you must have a bad connection small pics fast download :? anyway that is a awesome little car kind of a pocket ferrari.

[Davis Silver Sti]

buddy of mine just got one in San Diego...He really really really really likes it.
Its going to be his Autox and track car. He was on the waiting list for 3 yrs and got his at MSRP.

[Kurt_W]

buddy of mine just got one in San Diego...He really really really really likes it.
Its going to be his Autox and track car. He was on the waiting list for 3 yrs and got his at MSRP.

Davis, I think we should go with that plan we discussed in reference to the Elise and the WRX's...

[Davis Silver Sti]

[quote="Davis Silver STi":c8e3d]buddy of mine just got one in San Diego...He really really really really likes it.
Its going to be his Autox and track car. He was on the waiting list for 3 yrs and got his at MSRP.

Davis, I think we should go with that plan we discussed in reference to the Elise and the WRX's...[/quote:c8e3d]

So everyone knows......

Kurt sells his WRX, I sell my STi, we get a Elise.

However, I'll need to have a daily driver car....can I borrow one from your fleet?

[Feedman]

I think its a "neat car", but not worth 40K in my opinion....

Elise=overpriced.

8)

[RobbieNelson]

I think its a "neat car", but not worth 40K in my opinion....

Elise=overpriced.

8)

Yeah, its no civic. j/k

It's mostly aluminum. Most aluminum cars are expensive. Look at the NSX. It's alew min e umm isn't it?

[ShortysTRM]

lol 40K overpriced. STi's and EVO's are 30K, and they're based on cheap econo-boxes. Therefore, 40K is a bargain for such an exclusive supercar. No offense intended to anyone.

[Feedman]

lol 40K overpriced. STi's and EVO's are 30K, and they're based on cheap econo-boxes. Therefore, 40K is a bargain for such an exclusive supercar. No offense intended to anyone.

Please tell me what makes it a "supercar" ?

It uses the same engine as a Celica Gts, so by those terms a Celica Gts is a supercar, umm no.

8)

[Davis Silver Sti]

lol 40K overpriced. STi's and EVO's are 30K, and they're based on cheap econo-boxes. Therefore, 40K is a bargain for such an exclusive supercar. No offense intended to anyone.

Please tell me what makes it a "supercar" ?

It uses the same engine as a Celica Gts, so by those terms a Celica Gts is a supercar, umm no.

8)

Supercar= insane handling due to its sub 2000 pound weight, aluminum frame and specially built chasis, ultra quick razor steering, with a 190 hp engine. All of this makes for an incredible ride. Its performance numbers are in the 911 turbo category. Its a supercar in my book.

[xjoewhitex]

heres an NSX (http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=6&i=54674&t=54674) i would drive.. 8)

http://ahru.co.jp/usercar/002/stage12/009b.jpg

http://ahru.co.jp/usercar/002/stage12/007b.jpg

[Davis Silver Sti]

heres an NSX (http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=6&i=54674&t=54674) i would drive.. 8)

http://ahru.co.jp/usercar/002/stage12/009b.jpg

http://ahru.co.jp/usercar/002/stage12/007b.jpg

That's just plain wrong to badge a NSX with Ferrari emblems when it is very far from being a Ferrari. ugh

[xjoewhitex]

That's just plain wrong to badge a NSX with Ferrari emblems when it is very far from being a Ferrari. ugh It's not just emblems.. check out the link.. 8) thats insane body work..

[Davis Silver Sti]

That's just plain wrong to badge a NSX with Ferrari emblems when it is very far from being a Ferrari. ugh It's not just emblems.. check out the link.. 8) thats insane body work..

Emblems, body kit, fab'd body work....Still sad to see a car try so hard to be a Ferrari yet fall very short. (especailly a F50 or Enzo of which it was trying to be) Shoulda kept the car a NSX, or at least built it back to a NSX. just my .03..I don't really like replica cars

[narfdanarf]

I agree that it's sorta blasphemous to put ferrari badges on something other than a ferrari, or lambo badges on a fiero...however you have to remember that a lot of these kit cars can out perform their original counterparts.

[Kurt_W]

However, I'll need to have a daily driver car....can I borrow one from your fleet?

I'm sure something could be arranged easily enough :)

As for that NSX...What a waste of a good car...realizing it looked decent when it was done, its a real shame that they ruined such a beautiful NSX to make it. That and I imagine the wheel bearing were an often replaced item on that car as those wheels stick out much further then the bearings were designed for.

[Davis Silver Sti]

Let's quit the talk about the Elise before I sell a kidney and get one. Just got off the phone with my friend who went AutoX'ing in his Elise on Sunday in San Diego....its killing me...stop now! 8)

[Kurt_W]

So Davis, I’m betting you want silver…I of course want blue, but since we won’t be able to compromise on either color I suggest a Krypton Green one.
http://66.139.73.25/carconfig/images/krypton-green.jpg

Only $42,925.00 before tax and everything else…

[Davis Silver Sti]

So Davis, I’m betting you want silver…I of course want blue, but since we won’t be able to compromise on either color I suggest a Krypton Green one.
http://66.139.73.25/carconfig/images/krypton-green.jpg

Only $42,925.00 before tax and everything else…

I'm not talking to you again :wink:

[Feedman]

That color should be outlawed.... 8)

[Kurt_W]

I can understand how that color could be a turn off, so how about this one
http://66.139.73.25/carconfig/images/chrome-orange.jpg
or this one
http://66.139.73.25/carconfig/images/saffron-yellow.jpg

The yellow one is only $41,725.00 before tax and everything else...

[narfdanarf]

I think they are ugly, the car style, the color, everything. If I had to have something small, I think I'd get a mini cooper s instead.. get a pulley upgrade, and spend the other 20k on a real car.

[Feedman]

I think they are ugly, the car style, the color, everything. If I had to have something small, I think I'd get a mini cooper s instead.. get a pulley upgrade, and spend the other 20k on a real car.

I'm with Justin. The only one so far I liked was the sliver color. Again, I still feel its overpriced.... 8)

[ShortysTRM]

Chrome Orange is sweet, and the Lotus can wear it and not be lame because it's a Lotus. I've never seen a comparison, but I'd say that a Mini would look like a van beside an Elise. There's a big performance difference, too, but there's also a big price difference.

[narfdanarf]

There's a big performance difference, too,

if you reflashed the cooper s's computer and got a pulley it would be over 200 hp($200), making it more powerful than the 180hp elise.


btw I hope they fixed the problems with the GTS motor destructing itself :shock:

[ShortysTRM]

lol...now it just needs to lose 800 lbs. and that power might matter. Oh yeah, and performance isn't just horsepower...in fact, that doesn't have a lot to do with it at all.

[C_Note]

Which link?

[narfdanarf]

lol...now it just needs to lose 800 lbs. and that power might matter. Oh yeah, and performance isn't just horsepower...in fact, that doesn't have a lot to do with it at all.

obviously performance isn't just hp... lol born yesterday? butt the mini already excels in all other areas, it's just power challenged like the elise. Not to mention that the elise has the shitty 180hp Celica engine which has the most horrible "area under a curve" (lol exageration) in existence..a stock 160 hp Civic SI will put a GTS down, and I believe they are around the same weight..

regardless, we could argue all day, I'm just saying the Elise is waaay overpriced on a performance standpoint. I'll take a FRC C5 (the redneck supercar) over it anyday for the same money.

[ShortysTRM]

everything else aside, but would a Civic Si beat a GTS? That doesn't seem to make sense, as the acceleration numbers for the GTS are considerably quicker. I know they are also pretty agile, so I would still probably put my money on the GTS in auto-x. I'm not arguing, it just doen't seem correct and has nothing to do with HP. On topic, the Elise would literally destroy both in any situation, except maybe on a vacation.

[Feedman]

everything else aside, but would a Civic Si beat a GTS? That doesn't seem to make sense, as the acceleration numbers for the GTS are considerably quicker. I know they are also pretty agile, so I would still probably put my money on the GTS in auto-x. I'm not arguing, it just doen't seem correct and has nothing to do with HP. On topic, the Elise would literally destroy both in any situation, except maybe on a vacation.

Si or Gts? Strictly a drivers race. I have driven both. I was very un-impressed with the Gts. I was expecting it to pull as hard or harder than my Si in vtec, it didn't. It has more low end than the Si and is better suited for daily driving, but the midrange just isn't there. As Justin stated earlier, the Gts has a 6sp tranny that doesn't stay in the "meat" of the powerband very well, and tends to drop out of its Vvti (toyotas vtec), one of the many complaints from Gts owners. I think from a dig the Si would take it to around 80 mph where the Gts may walk away.

In the 1/4, whoever gets the better launch.... 8)

[jchouse]

..a stock 160 hp Civic SI will put a GTS down, and I believe they are around the same weight..

Toyota Celica GT-S
Quarter Mile: 15.2 seconds @ 93 mph

Honda Civic SI
Quater Mile: 15.7 @ 88.4 mph

I looked it up and that would not be correct, and I have also driven both cars and to say that the si is faster is a joke, it was night and day going from the si to the gts and yes I test drove both in the same day.

[narfdanarf]

I've driven both cars also, I'd say the SI would win, the GTS didn't feel much faster than my Talon??? anyways you all are missing the point that the Elise is a torn down celica with ricetastic bodywork, better suspension, butt has a engine that's been proven to fail over time.

Elise = Rich ricers wet dream



cliff's notes: this is my opinion, I'm sure it performs well, butt can you not think of any better cars to buy with the same money or waaay less?

[jchouse]

You could probably make an all out race car crx with a tubed frame gsr swap and a badass suspension and still have 10K left over for gas. Waste of 42K in my opinion.

[Davis Silver Sti]

cliff's notes: this is my opinion, I'm sure it performs well, butt can you not think of any better cars to buy with the same money or waaay less?

Nope. For a track/AutoX car the Elise would be it for me. For a daily driver I'll stick to the STi. My opinion only too :)

[Kurt_W]

… butt can you not think of any better cars to buy with the same money or waaay less?

Name one car that performs at a similar level for considerably less? The S2000 is about the only one I can think of. Straight-line performance is great (I guess?) but in this area it’s of little consequence.

Here is Road and Track’s comparison of the Elise vs many of the Hi-Po cars that are currently available. It is not as powerful or faster (in a straight line) then any of the other cars, but it would out perform those same cars on a tight auto-x course or a tight-radius-turn road.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp ... 4&preview= (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=1419&page_number=4&preview=)

For comparison to the current ricer lust cars in terms of QT time, the Elise is even at 13.4 seconds vs the EVO’s 13.4 and the Sti’s 13.3. The same driver in any three of those cars would easily get the best time with the Elise on a tight course…a more open course might overly affect the results in the STi or EVO’s favor, but I doubt it would be by much. (Sorry Robbie and Davis…real-world comparison purposes only.)
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp ... e_number=1 (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=1114&page_number=1)
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp ... 2&preview= (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=592&page_number=2&preview=)

Realizing I’m just quoting R&T’s tests, but other tests I’ve read have been sufficiently similar to not warrant any expansion in sources…however, if you can find sources that demonstrate otherwise, feel free.

You could probably make an all out race car crx with a tubed frame gsr swap and a badass suspension and still have 10K left over for gas. Waste of 42K in my opinion.

Yes, you likely could build a good race car for that price, but why would you bother? You’ve just spent $30k on a car that you’d be lucky to get $10k back out of. An Elise however will hold its value much better due to being a factory build vehicle of low production numbers and it would still handle better then the race CRX. CRX’s, while great handling cars, are not properly balanced for high performace driving. MR and FR cars are much better suited to high performance driving.

There is also such thing as overpowering a chasis. I have a friend that has a build D16 turbo CRX that puts about 200hp to the wheels…the car was originally set up for auto-x and it did quite well with a small turbo that yielded about 140hp. However, when he went to the larger turbo the car suddenly had too much power to keep pointed in the right direction. This is with a person with 5 years of auto-x experience in a CRX driving it. He swapped over to driving his S2000 cause he could get it back in the top 10 where he was before he overpowered his CRX.

As for the looks of the car, that is a matter of taste. The Elise is not a car designed for everyone. What most Americans don’t realize is that this car has been in production for roughly 5-10 years. This is the second generation of the body. While I preferred the looks of the previous generation to this one, it has many flaws, such as not being as rigid, horrible leaking roof problems and an underpowered K-Series rover engine (115 hp) in the standard form. It only makes sense to update the styling and bring over a design that makes a splash and gets peoples attention. Some people love it, some people hate it.

The Elise 190 had a 190 hp K-series engine that was a vast improvement over the 115 hp engine (I would think that would be obvious.) However, all forms of the K-series Rover engine don’t past emissions in the US, which is a large part of the reason we didn’t get the Elise until this year. Lotus contacted several engine manufactures about engines prior to bring the car to the US. Honda wasn’t interested in supplying engines in such low quantities (if I remember correctly) but Toyota was. Lotus then took the Toyota engine and retuned the ECU to eck out an additional 10 hp (up from 180 hp.)

On the note of the engine being a pile, I haven’t heard much about the engine being bad. It is a Toyota after all, and while Toyota’s engine quality isn’t quite up to Honda’s, its still very good. I would imagine a lot of the failures in the Celica engine were owner induced as well seeing as most people who bought cars like the GTS (and Si for that matter) thought they were buying a sports car and drove it accordingly. The friend I mentioned above with the Turbo CRX deals with a Acura dealer where he lives…the stories he’s told me from that dealer about people grenading RSX engines are pretty spectacular. Something tells me that if it had a B18C5 in it then people on this forum would be much more forgiving.

Price, oh yes, price. Yeah, an aluminum/composite bodied car weighing less then 2000 lb that is mostly hand built should cost more then a standard steel construction car put together on an assembly line. If I could afford it, I would trade the WRX in on an Elise in a heartbeat. I wouldn’t care what color it was or anything…and its not just because I’m a ricer having a wet dream. It’s because I realize there is no other car on the market in the same category. The Lotus nameplate has been associated with the Esprit for much to long and has caused the brand to lose its cache in the US market. Lotus cars were always expensive, underweight and adequately if not over powered.

I could say more, but I’m sure most of the people on the forum don’t have the fortitude to read a 2 page long post so I digress…for now.

[Feedman]

..a stock 160 hp Civic SI will put a GTS down, and I believe they are around the same weight..

Toyota Celica GT-S
Quarter Mile: 15.2 seconds @ 93 mph

Honda Civic SI
Quater Mile: 15.7 @ 88.4 mph

I looked it up and that would not be correct, and I have also driven both cars and to say that the si is faster is a joke, it was night and day going from the si to the gts and yes I test drove both in the same day.

Mag times don't count. Practical street experience only please. I would think that a car with more hp and tq and a 6sp gearbox would take an Si. Not always the case. More hp doesn't always gurantee an instant victory. Gearing is key. That is why an Si does so well, b/c the gearing keeps the revs high in between shifts. I never drop pass 6k which keeps the engine in vtec. I have seen kill stories from both forums. As I said, so goes the better driver, so goes the race. 8)

[Kurt_W]

Mag times don't count...As I said, so goes the better driver, so goes the race. 8)

I would argue that this indicates that the magazine times do count...though its not likely that one of use would treat our car the same way they do the magazine car (example: many High 0-60 times on the WRX were accomplished by dropping the clutch at 6-7k rpm...a sure way to destroy the tranny.) In my mind the fact that the cars are driven by the magazine people the same way (and by the same people) that it would yield more consistant and reasonable results for comparitive purposes. Differences in mentality of the driver do not change the capability of a car itself, just how it performs with said driver behind the wheel.

[Feedman]

Mag times don't count...As I said, so goes the better driver, so goes the race. 8)

I would argue that this indicates that the magazine times do count...though its not likely that one of use would treat our car the same way they do the magazine car (example: many High 0-60 times on the WRX were accomplished by dropping the clutch at 6-7k rpm...a sure way to destroy the tranny.) In my mind the fact that the cars are driven by the magazine people the same way (and by the same people) that it would yield more consistant and reasonable results for comparitive purposes. Differences in mentality of the driver do not change the capability of a car itself, just how it performs with said driver behind the wheel.

To some degree some times may be correct, but I often see magazines posting times and then visiting the forums and hear discussion after discussion about the times being alot faster or way to slow. More often than not they are incorrect...thats where I am coming from....

Until I see it in person, or drive it myself, I don't put much stock in mag times.... 8)

[RobbieNelson]

I would think that a car with more hp and tq and a 6sp gearbox would take an Si. Not always the case. More hp doesn't always gurantee an instant victory. Gearing is key.

Weight is also a factor. How much does an Si weigh?

BTW... most of Kurts post was about the fact that he dosen't really care about straight line speed/accel.

[Feedman]

I would think that a car with more hp and tq and a 6sp gearbox would take an Si. Not always the case. More hp doesn't always gurantee an instant victory. Gearing is key.

Weight is also a factor. How much does an Si weigh?

BTW... most of Kurts post was about the fact that he dosen't really care about straight line speed/accel.

2650lbs. I beleive...but I am talking about the true Si's...lol...the 99-00 2dr coupe.


Back on topic...Its no that I don't dislike the Elise, I just feel that there are better cars out there for less. I would think a slightly modded Sti/Evo would hands down be better for less.

I am sure most of you know, that I am all about price point....I would take the Awd advantage, more tq and higher hp this time around.... :wink:

[ShortysTRM]

GTS didn't feel much faster than my Talon??? anyways you all are missing the point that the Elise is a torn down celica with ricetastic bodywork, better suspension, butt has a engine that's been proven to fail over time.

Elise = Rich ricers wet dream


Ho lee sheit..I hope that was some kind of rage-induced saracsm. For one thing, how much faster than a Talon did you think it was?? Are you saying that an Si is a lot faster than a talon?? I had always thought their 0-60 times were like 8.1, which, well, sucks. To call a Lotus a torn down Celica is RETARDED. Built-up, maybe. If you drop a GSR block into a CRX, does that make it a torn down Integra? No. And would that CRX have a warranty? No. Would that CRX weigh 1900 lbs? Absolutely not. Would it be reliable, comfortable on the street, and turn heads like a Ferrari? Sorry, but no. The ONLY thing it has in common with a GTS is the drivetrain, which is STILL different than in GTS form.
Also, I have got to get me a Talon, because I'm getting tired of engines failing over time. Funny, I thought they all did that...?

Kurt: You were very informative and imperical in your post, and I thank you for that. The Elise's arrival statesaide was way overdue, and I'm still pissed that we never got a version of the Opel Speedster. For a GM, that thing is sweet...and now you can get them in turbo form.

[Feedman]

GTS didn't feel much faster than my Talon??? anyways you all are missing the point that the Elise is a torn down celica with ricetastic bodywork, better suspension, butt has a engine that's been proven to fail over time.

Elise = Rich ricers wet dream


Ho lee sheit..I hope that was some kind of rage-induced saracsm. For one thing, how much faster than a Talon did you think it was?? Are you saying that an Si is a lot faster than a talon?? I had always thought their 0-60 times were like 8.1, which, well, sucks. To call a Lotus a torn down Celica is RETARDED. Built-up, maybe. If you drop a GSR block into a CRX, does that make it a torn down Integra? No. And would that CRX have a warranty? No. Would that CRX weigh 1900 lbs? Absolutely not. Would it be reliable, comfortable on the street, and turn heads like a Ferrari? Sorry, but no. The ONLY thing it has in common with a GTS is the drivetrain, which is STILL different than in GTS form.
Also, I have got to get me a Talon, because I'm getting tired of engines failing over time. Funny, I thought they all did that...?

Kurt: You were very informative and imperical in your post, and I thank you for that. The Elise's arrival statesaide was way overdue, and I'm still pissed that we never got a version of the Opel Speedster. For a GM, that thing is sweet...and now you can get them in turbo form.

actually the crx would weigh 1900lbs..lol... :wink:

[narfdanarf]

is that what I said you moronic mook? I meant tore down as far as weight is concerned. I mearly mentioned the SI because hp is not a measurement for speed. It was a comparison because of the oh so week GTS engine, which I felt was not a lot faster than my talon. I didn't say that a talon would last longer. (actually the nonturbo DSMs should, my talon is a lemon)


once again!!! my point is that the specs of the elise are merely blah, and over fapped about...point being you can get much more car for cheaper. This car pulls a mid 13 second quarter, and .94g on skidpad...according to the same mag. the Evo pulls the same exact quarter, but hits .98 on skidpad...for almost $20000 less, and still including your oh so precious factory warranty

[Feedman]

is that what I said you moronic mook? I meant tore down as far as weight is concerned. I mearly mentioned the SI because hp is not a measurement for speed. It was a comparison because of the oh so week GTS engine, which I felt was not a lot faster than my talon. I didn't say that a talon would last longer. (actually the nonturbo DSMs should, my talon is a lemon)


once again!!! my point is that the specs of the elise are merely blah, and over fapped about...point being you can get much more car for cheaper. This car pulls a mid 13 second quarter, and .94g on skidpad...according to the same mag. the Evo pulls the same exact quarter, but hits .98 on skidpad...for almost $20000 less, and still including your oh so precious factory warranty

*dead*
8)