Headers... Purchase or Fabricate

[kmfdmk]

I'm contemplating getting a header for my 85 Supra (5M-GE) to help free up some torque. (I'm also replacing the air filter & cat & exhaust).

PaceSetter makes one for about 200 bucks on eBay, Doug Thorley makes one that's about 100 bucks more.

Should I really spend the extra 80 bucks for the coating? I realize that metal will decay from heating & cooling cycles, however I don't know if I want to justify the price of 300 dollars seeing as about 700 bucks will get me a 7M-GTE shipped ( the turbo supra engine from 86.5 -> 93).

[Feedman]

I personally wouldn't mess with the header myself if you don't have an intake and exhuast to finish it out.

Also if you plan on doing the engine swap...save up and make it a winter project.....

8)

[kmfdmk]

I wish. the only way I'll come even CLOSE to a 7M-GTE is if I can seel my dodge darts... and that would be a worthy cause.

[narfdanarf]

I've heard that the pacesetter offers next to no gains on any car.

[kmfdmk]

That may be however it must be taken into account that any header is goign to be more free flowing than a stock manifold. And coupled with a freer flowing intake and exhaust, if the header were to be coupled with persay a 24 valve head as opposed a 12 valve head, I would expect to see some impressive gains.

[narfdanarf]

maybe, butt not if you didn't have a larger intake manifold to let more air in to go through those valves, and what about the cams?

[Feedman]

I've heard that the pacesetter offers next to no gains on any car.

I'm w/Justin on this...I have heard very little good info regarding Pacesetter....I would recommend AGAINST them.... 8)

[kmfdmk]

I've heard that the pacesetter offers next to no gains on any car.

I'm w/Justin on this...I have heard very little good info regarding Pacesetter....I would recommend AGAINST them.... 8)

Since PaceSetter sucks, and Doug Thorley ones run half of what a new engine (7M-GTE) runs.. anyone know any local guys who fab headers? and how much they run??

[Feedman]

I've heard that the pacesetter offers next to no gains on any car.

I'm w/Justin on this...I have heard very little good info regarding Pacesetter....I would recommend AGAINST them.... 8)

Since PaceSetter sucks, and Doug Thorley ones run half of what a new engine (7M-GTE) runs.. anyone know any local guys who fab headers? and how much they run??

I don't know of anyone. A header(s) is more than just getting yourself a flange and connecting pipes. I wouldn't trust anyone in this area to make me a good flowing header(s). There is alot of R&D that does into a good design. Either buy one or forget it in my opinion. Now fabbing turbo d/p's and exhuast work is totally different...do it up I say.... 8)

[kmfdmk]

Yeah I realize there are a lot of mathematics involved in making a GOOD header. (Flow rate from a given size pipe, resonant frequency from harmonics due to the valves opening & closing, not to mention the standing waves that the valves create, along with fluid dynamics dealign with resistance from the pipe bends). I just didn't know if anyone around could make 'em up good.

I wouldn't put it past myself to create one solely from scratch but it'd be a year-long process since I'd have to teach myself a LOT of HVAC fluid dynamics and brush up on a bit of chemistry/physics.

I think it's best to just save up my money. At this point I'm considering 2 things....

Dropping a 7M-GE head (with 2x the valves & more flow) with a custom port/polished intake, filter, and header w/ Über high-flow exhaust. OR doing an entire 7M-GTE engine swap. Doesn't look to be out of my league, however it would require around another 2,000 USD to do it.

[Feedman]

Are you planning on keeping this car?

I am just afraid after the headwork/exhuast etc...while staying N/a you are looking @ putting alot of $$$$ into something and not getting alot of returns.

I would expect for you to see very minimal gains....20hp peak?

I wouldn't waste your time....or $$$. 8)

[ShortysTRM]

From what I know, all the stuff about Pacesetter is word of mouth. We have a header for my fiancee's alero sitting at my house right now and it looks great, but it is coated. We also installed one from Pacesetter on my friend's Eclipse Turbo and it fit perfectly and looks absolutely awesome. Everyone that I hear bitch about them either didn't get their's coated with ceramic or they heard it from a friend of a friend. We went through a lot of research before we ever decided what to buy, and most ACTUAL reviews of COATED Pacesetter headers are pretty good, though you may see a couple more HP from a better/more expensive brand. If you get Pacesetter, get another gasket before you install it.

[Feedman]

From what I know, all the stuff about Pacesetter is word of mouth. We have a header for my fiancee's alero sitting at my house right now and it looks great, but it is coated. We also installed one from Pacesetter on my friend's Eclipse Turbo and it fit perfectly and looks absolutely awesome. Everyone that I hear bitch about them either didn't get their's coated with ceramic or they heard it from a friend of a friend. We went through a lot of research before we ever decided what to buy, and most ACTUAL reviews of COATED Pacesetter headers are pretty good, though you may see a couple more HP from a better/more expensive brand. If you get Pacesetter, get another gasket before you install it.

I didn't hear one bit of info on how it performs...?

Looks don't mean anything to me when it comes to a header.... 8)

[daveb91]

I've heard that the pacesetter offers next to no gains on any car.

Actually they make good gains on a 420a or at least the neon version its just the build quality sucks they rust out quickly unless you get the ceramic version.

[narfdanarf]

From what I know, all the stuff about Pacesetter is word of mouth. We have a header for my fiancee's alero sitting at my house right now and it looks great, but it is coated. We also installed one from Pacesetter on my friend's Eclipse Turbo and it fit perfectly and looks absolutely awesome. Everyone that I hear bitch about them either didn't get their's coated with ceramic or they heard it from a friend of a friend. We went through a lot of research before we ever decided what to buy, and most ACTUAL reviews of COATED Pacesetter headers are pretty good, though you may see a couple more HP from a better/more expensive brand. If you get Pacesetter, get another gasket before you install it.

didn't know they made a header for an eclipse turbo :wink:

[Feedman]

From what I know, all the stuff about Pacesetter is word of mouth. We have a header for my fiancee's alero sitting at my house right now and it looks great, but it is coated. We also installed one from Pacesetter on my friend's Eclipse Turbo and it fit perfectly and looks absolutely awesome. Everyone that I hear bitch about them either didn't get their's coated with ceramic or they heard it from a friend of a friend. We went through a lot of research before we ever decided what to buy, and most ACTUAL reviews of COATED Pacesetter headers are pretty good, though you may see a couple more HP from a better/more expensive brand. If you get Pacesetter, get another gasket before you install it.

didn't know they made a header for an eclipse turbo :wink:

Good catch....lol.... 8)

[Don juan futon]

If you honestly want to build your own then get a flowbench while you're at it. That's the only way to do it. Otherwise, you're just hoping that it meets its full potential. So your best bet=buy a decent one

[ShortysTRM]

I never called it a header...I just never called it a manifold, either. If you're curious, $266 coated and shipped here in 2 days from Summit.

[narfdanarf]

I never called it a header...I just never called it a manifold, either. If you're curious, $266 coated and shipped here in 2 days from Summit.

why didn't you just port his factory manifold?It's good for more power than he'll ever make, or was it just for bling factor? If it is just a log style I would almost think that it would hurt flow cause it only has a 2 inch collector, which is about stock, if not smaller.

I'm not raggin on you or him or anything...i'm genuinely curious

[kmfdmk]

Are you planning on keeping this car?

I am just afraid after the headwork/exhuast etc...while staying N/a you are looking @ putting alot of $$$$ into something and not getting alot of returns.

I would expect for you to see very minimal gains....20hp peak?

I wouldn't waste your time....or $$$. 8)

Indeed I plan on keeping this car till I'm rolling in my grave about not being able to drive it. I'm never gonna get rid of it... ever. You do make some valid points about going to the trouble of getting a header, new intake, port polishing the head and a new exhaust. Once I'm that far into in $$ wise, I think investing 1000 in a 7M-GTE would be a much better way to go as there's so much more available to work with (aftermarket part wise). From cams, to a handful of different turbos, ECU upgrades and the like. I'm beginning to realize the 7M-GTE is the *only* way to go with my baby.

I do intend to keep it, I also intend to make it only half drivable in that I'm looking to gut EVERYTHING that's behind the drivers seat, except maybe for leaving on some of the trim to keep it looking halfway ok.

The list of stuff to yank so far includes:

Rear Seats, speaker box out of the back, and spare tire.
I'll most likely start out by putting in a rear strut tower brace, and a front strut tower brace to tie it together a bit better, and then eventually upgrade to a 1/2 roll cage (there's just not enough room to put in a full cage, plus I don't think I really need it).

[Feedman]

Just making sure you are covering all the possibilities....

good luck....let us know what you decide.... 8)

[ShortysTRM]

The Pacesetter manifold is a very nice piece, including what looks to be a 2.5"-3" collector. It's definitely not a log-style manifold, but it also not equal length. He's running 19-20 PSI, thanks to some boost creep, and has an Apex'i N-1 downpipe and cat-back. The Pacesetter looks like it would easily outflow even a ported 2G manifold, though I have heard a lot of good stuff about porting 2G manifolds. If I can get some pics of it, I will show you.

[ShortysTRM]

here it is on someone else's car

[narfdanarf]

wow that looks really nice, I'm impressed, though on their site it says 2" collector...maybe they have two different models, one of which sucks? Regardless, If I had a 2g i'd just port the factory manifold which is good for like 500 hp or something


btw what turbo does your friend have? Please tell me it's not stock.

[ShortysTRM]

The collector is about 3", though the flange is probably 2-2 1/2". Stock turbo, too. He has a 16G waiting to go in, but the car is driven like once every month, so he's in no big hurry. We've never seen any problems with the stock turbo. It spools up quick and puts out enough boost to eat the stock internals, so no big concern.

[narfdanarf]

the stock t-25 is complete junk, any turbo can put out enough boost to fry stock internals lol hot air. 20lbs on t-25 can you say "where is my efficiency range" lol scooby doo? by redline how much boost is he making? like 15 lbs...lol puke and die

[ShortysTRM]

Yes, his boost is at like 15 psi when he is at redline, but 15 psi is still a good bit of boost. How about we get back to the topic that this guy intended?

If you really have access to everything you need to get all of the pipes cut, crimped, welded, and alligned correctly, I'd say DIY, because that's always fun. If you're going to get the other engine, do it ASAP, as the earlier you do it, the longer you get drive it. :D

[ben2000formula]

t-25= Shit, But pacesetter does make a good set of headers for the ls1 and that was the brand i about went with, but i got a tits deal on the flowtech. for the pric at the time, pacesetter was the cheapest and had a pretty good quality.