xjoewhitex
12-13-2004, 10:09 AM
heres a good write up i found on boosted-hybrid.com seems to go thru everything that you would need to know, what to get and so on....
There have been a lot of posts lately on people who are pretty new to turbo and not sure which route to go, injectors, turbo, etc. This will be a brief thread on going about starting a plan to make your way faster to the turbo world.
First thing is first:
:arrow: What will the car be used for? Drag racing, Daily Driving, Road racing/Autocross. Finding out what kind of racing or driving you will be doing will help to determine better where you want your powerband.
:arrow: Condition of motor?How many miles do you have on that pig? If you have more than 100k miles try doing a leakdown and compression test to make sure your motor is stout enough to handle some extra pressure in the cylinders. Wouldn't want to boost a car with crappy compression and risk blowing the motor
:arrow: Power? What are your goals. How much power are you looking for. WHere do you want your powerband to be. Most drag racers want their powerband to stretch throughout the top end, whereas road racers and autocrossers want more of low and midrange power band. Remember that you do not need 500whp to run 12's. Make realistic goals depending on budget and your style of driving.
:arrow: Show me the money?While some will contest that turbo can be done cheap (bigwig). IMO to do a well done turbo kit it takes more than $1000. Just be aware of this when you decide to go this way because otherwise you'll end up getting frustrated that all the parts are costing so much, and end up selling the things you have and loose even more money. I have seen it many times.
:arrow: Kit or Custom: This has been a debate since the beginning of time. Which way do you go? Depending on the power I would say that either is good, minus some parts here and there. Below I will just do a small list of kits out there and possible shortcomings:
Drag GenIII - While Drag has been the leader for a long time. They still have had problems with their manifold cracking after sometime of use. When buying a Drag kit I would also look into better fuel management instead of what they give you. The drag kit is capable of making some sick power for your honda. *Drag kit usually uses a turbonetics 54Trim turbo*
Revhard StageX - Revhard has also been one of the top kits out there and their parts are quality. While I think the Revhard kit is a little more pricewise than Drag, the parts are very good and can produce nice numbers. Once again their fuel management is shitty and I would reccomend going another route with that. *Revhard usually uses a 57trim turbo*
GReddy - Greddy is a great kit for those looking for good midrange power and a pretty much bolt on kit. When Hondatec38 and I did his kit it was so easy to put together and the bluebox worked perfect for stock boost. It didn't make as much power as the other kits would but it was enough to feel the midrange and have fun daily driving. This kit is also good for those looking to keep the car as street legal as possible (carb legal). Jeff has tuned a GSR with the greddy and hondata that made 280whp. The power is there if tuned correctly. The downpipes are really small on these kits, and the oil lines tend to leak after awhile. It is still a great kit. *Greddy usually uses mitsubishi 14g, 16g, or 18g turbos*
There are other kits out there: SFP, Full Race, Peakboost, etc but I just wanted to show you the big guys in the market.
:arrow: Custom: With a custom kit you can pick the parts you want to use, and get them gradually or all at once depending on your money situation. I think this is why most people choose to go this route. I recently put together a really nice kit for a BH member and it only ran around $2800 for everything. This included an Equal length manifold,SC34, Uberdata, and all other necessary parts. If you are on a limited budget (cant come up with $3000 right away) or want to get different parts custom is probably best for you.
1. Cool you are going with a kit. All your injectors/turbo/IC have been picked for you so you don't have to worry about it, unless you are upgrading your fuel management.
2. If you are thinking more down the line of a custom kit look below:
Ok Billy Badass. You want to make a custom kit but you have no clue what turbo, fuel management, injectors, or Intercooler to go with? Here are some threads on BH that might help you.
Injector sizing: http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4
Turbo Sizing: Picking a turbo will all be dependent on what kind of power you want and where. Here is a thread Jeff did with a little background on turbos. http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=102
Fuel Management: There are many choices out there. Its up to you what you feel comfortable using. http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=60
Intercooler sizing: Also is dependent on what kind of power you will be making. http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=115
:arrow: Make Reasonable Goals and Decide what kind of car you have (track, Daily driver, etc)
- Do you have to pass emissions? Almost all turbo kits will not pass emissions. Greddy is the only one that has a carb sticker, but sometimes still won't pass emissions. The greddy kit will also not gain you 500whp.
- Make Reasonable power goals. If you want to get into the 12s or even 11's in the quarter mile you do not need 500whp. Dyno Queens are just pretty to see make power. Putting that kind of power to the ground takes a ton of expensive suspension components. For most people 250-350whp will more than do on the streets and easily get you low 12's.
- Figure if you want a 500whp it will not pass emissions or any type of inspection.
:arrow: Things that will not pass inspection and visual (For those that have it)
-Open Loop Blowoff Valves
-No Catalytic converter (if you take it out)
-Intercooler
-Not having your PCV system hooked up (if you dont have a full catch can setup, even that will fail visual)
-Running any Standalone Fuel Management (Hondata, AEM, Crome, Uberdata) VAFC and GReddy Emanage will pass as long as you don't throw any codes because they arent true standalones, but they won't pass visual.
-Running too rich will increase your noc level (pollutant level) and you will fail a sniffer test.
*** If you have a hookup on inspection/emissions you should be cool, also if you keep your car under 5000 miles a year it is emissions exempt. But for those Dailly Drivers that won't work***
:arrow: Please ask yourself these questions before you decide to go turbo:
- Do I have the money to do it, and or pay for something if it breaks?
- Am I doing this because I want the power increase or I want the BOV sound?
- Have I researched enough about this in case I have to troubleshoot a problem?
- If you aren't installing it yourself, Do I know someone or a company that is trustworthy to install my turbo kit and tune it?
- If buying a used kit, Do I know how this kit has been used? Do I know if the parts are good? Do I know if the turbo is in good shape (no shaft play, seals are good, etc)?
- If doing a junkyard setup, Is it worth the money to buy all these junkyard parts for a chance to blow my motor (if bogus parts are used)?
If you answered no to any of these, please reconsider waiting and or researching more before you attempt to turbo your honda.
:arrow: What do you actually need to turbo a honda?
Required:
Turbo
Manifold
Downpipe
Wastegate (Internal or External)
Oil Feed line
Oil Return line
Water lines (if turbo is watercooled)
Piping (If not using an Intercooler just enough piping to route back to throttle body)
Piping Couplings
Blowoff Valve (not reccomended to not use one do to compressor surge)
Injectors (saturated or unsaturated)
Fuel Management (**Must HAVE!!**) Many choices to choose from
Vacuum lines
Misc. clamps,hoses, and bolts
Recommended:
Intercooler (air to air, or air to liquid)
Oil Sandwich adapter
Gauges (atleast boost)
air filter
255LPH HP Fuel pump
wastegate dumptube
Enhancements:
Boost Controller
3bar Map Sensor
Wideband o2 sensor
Extra gauges (oil press, egt, oil temp, etc)
gauge pod
Stronger axles
Forged Internals
Turbo Timer
Bigger Intake Manifold
Turbo camshafts
Traction Bars
3in exhaust
There have been a lot of posts lately on people who are pretty new to turbo and not sure which route to go, injectors, turbo, etc. This will be a brief thread on going about starting a plan to make your way faster to the turbo world.
First thing is first:
:arrow: What will the car be used for? Drag racing, Daily Driving, Road racing/Autocross. Finding out what kind of racing or driving you will be doing will help to determine better where you want your powerband.
:arrow: Condition of motor?How many miles do you have on that pig? If you have more than 100k miles try doing a leakdown and compression test to make sure your motor is stout enough to handle some extra pressure in the cylinders. Wouldn't want to boost a car with crappy compression and risk blowing the motor
:arrow: Power? What are your goals. How much power are you looking for. WHere do you want your powerband to be. Most drag racers want their powerband to stretch throughout the top end, whereas road racers and autocrossers want more of low and midrange power band. Remember that you do not need 500whp to run 12's. Make realistic goals depending on budget and your style of driving.
:arrow: Show me the money?While some will contest that turbo can be done cheap (bigwig). IMO to do a well done turbo kit it takes more than $1000. Just be aware of this when you decide to go this way because otherwise you'll end up getting frustrated that all the parts are costing so much, and end up selling the things you have and loose even more money. I have seen it many times.
:arrow: Kit or Custom: This has been a debate since the beginning of time. Which way do you go? Depending on the power I would say that either is good, minus some parts here and there. Below I will just do a small list of kits out there and possible shortcomings:
Drag GenIII - While Drag has been the leader for a long time. They still have had problems with their manifold cracking after sometime of use. When buying a Drag kit I would also look into better fuel management instead of what they give you. The drag kit is capable of making some sick power for your honda. *Drag kit usually uses a turbonetics 54Trim turbo*
Revhard StageX - Revhard has also been one of the top kits out there and their parts are quality. While I think the Revhard kit is a little more pricewise than Drag, the parts are very good and can produce nice numbers. Once again their fuel management is shitty and I would reccomend going another route with that. *Revhard usually uses a 57trim turbo*
GReddy - Greddy is a great kit for those looking for good midrange power and a pretty much bolt on kit. When Hondatec38 and I did his kit it was so easy to put together and the bluebox worked perfect for stock boost. It didn't make as much power as the other kits would but it was enough to feel the midrange and have fun daily driving. This kit is also good for those looking to keep the car as street legal as possible (carb legal). Jeff has tuned a GSR with the greddy and hondata that made 280whp. The power is there if tuned correctly. The downpipes are really small on these kits, and the oil lines tend to leak after awhile. It is still a great kit. *Greddy usually uses mitsubishi 14g, 16g, or 18g turbos*
There are other kits out there: SFP, Full Race, Peakboost, etc but I just wanted to show you the big guys in the market.
:arrow: Custom: With a custom kit you can pick the parts you want to use, and get them gradually or all at once depending on your money situation. I think this is why most people choose to go this route. I recently put together a really nice kit for a BH member and it only ran around $2800 for everything. This included an Equal length manifold,SC34, Uberdata, and all other necessary parts. If you are on a limited budget (cant come up with $3000 right away) or want to get different parts custom is probably best for you.
1. Cool you are going with a kit. All your injectors/turbo/IC have been picked for you so you don't have to worry about it, unless you are upgrading your fuel management.
2. If you are thinking more down the line of a custom kit look below:
Ok Billy Badass. You want to make a custom kit but you have no clue what turbo, fuel management, injectors, or Intercooler to go with? Here are some threads on BH that might help you.
Injector sizing: http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4
Turbo Sizing: Picking a turbo will all be dependent on what kind of power you want and where. Here is a thread Jeff did with a little background on turbos. http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=102
Fuel Management: There are many choices out there. Its up to you what you feel comfortable using. http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=60
Intercooler sizing: Also is dependent on what kind of power you will be making. http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=115
:arrow: Make Reasonable Goals and Decide what kind of car you have (track, Daily driver, etc)
- Do you have to pass emissions? Almost all turbo kits will not pass emissions. Greddy is the only one that has a carb sticker, but sometimes still won't pass emissions. The greddy kit will also not gain you 500whp.
- Make Reasonable power goals. If you want to get into the 12s or even 11's in the quarter mile you do not need 500whp. Dyno Queens are just pretty to see make power. Putting that kind of power to the ground takes a ton of expensive suspension components. For most people 250-350whp will more than do on the streets and easily get you low 12's.
- Figure if you want a 500whp it will not pass emissions or any type of inspection.
:arrow: Things that will not pass inspection and visual (For those that have it)
-Open Loop Blowoff Valves
-No Catalytic converter (if you take it out)
-Intercooler
-Not having your PCV system hooked up (if you dont have a full catch can setup, even that will fail visual)
-Running any Standalone Fuel Management (Hondata, AEM, Crome, Uberdata) VAFC and GReddy Emanage will pass as long as you don't throw any codes because they arent true standalones, but they won't pass visual.
-Running too rich will increase your noc level (pollutant level) and you will fail a sniffer test.
*** If you have a hookup on inspection/emissions you should be cool, also if you keep your car under 5000 miles a year it is emissions exempt. But for those Dailly Drivers that won't work***
:arrow: Please ask yourself these questions before you decide to go turbo:
- Do I have the money to do it, and or pay for something if it breaks?
- Am I doing this because I want the power increase or I want the BOV sound?
- Have I researched enough about this in case I have to troubleshoot a problem?
- If you aren't installing it yourself, Do I know someone or a company that is trustworthy to install my turbo kit and tune it?
- If buying a used kit, Do I know how this kit has been used? Do I know if the parts are good? Do I know if the turbo is in good shape (no shaft play, seals are good, etc)?
- If doing a junkyard setup, Is it worth the money to buy all these junkyard parts for a chance to blow my motor (if bogus parts are used)?
If you answered no to any of these, please reconsider waiting and or researching more before you attempt to turbo your honda.
:arrow: What do you actually need to turbo a honda?
Required:
Turbo
Manifold
Downpipe
Wastegate (Internal or External)
Oil Feed line
Oil Return line
Water lines (if turbo is watercooled)
Piping (If not using an Intercooler just enough piping to route back to throttle body)
Piping Couplings
Blowoff Valve (not reccomended to not use one do to compressor surge)
Injectors (saturated or unsaturated)
Fuel Management (**Must HAVE!!**) Many choices to choose from
Vacuum lines
Misc. clamps,hoses, and bolts
Recommended:
Intercooler (air to air, or air to liquid)
Oil Sandwich adapter
Gauges (atleast boost)
air filter
255LPH HP Fuel pump
wastegate dumptube
Enhancements:
Boost Controller
3bar Map Sensor
Wideband o2 sensor
Extra gauges (oil press, egt, oil temp, etc)
gauge pod
Stronger axles
Forged Internals
Turbo Timer
Bigger Intake Manifold
Turbo camshafts
Traction Bars
3in exhaust